In this thought-provoking episode, we explore the intriguing question: "What if I succeed?" Delving into the complexities of success, the discussion unfolds in the following key areas:
Join us as we share practical insights on navigating developing success, identifying shifts, and addressing the internal and external dynamics that accompany growth. This episode encourages listeners to consider how to strategically shift for continued success.
Connect with us today @
Websites: www.ihimtv.com , www.agapeacf.com, www.theleadersforge.com
Social media: linkedin: Matt Amy Carpenter - Executive Leadership Strategic Advisors - In His Image Ministries | LinkedIn
Facebook: www.facebook.com/IHIMTV/Internet TV: Faith United Network. FUN TV - HOME (watchfuntv.com)
Thanks for listening! Connect with us, for more products or our availability on Facebook, Linkedin and ihimtv.com
Thanks for listening! Connect with us, for more products or our availability on Facebook, Linkedin and ihimtv.com
In this thought-provoking episode, we explore the intriguing question: "What if I succeed?" Delving into the complexities of success, the discussion unfolds in the following key areas:
Join us as we share practical insights on navigating developing success, identifying shifts, and addressing the internal and external dynamics that accompany growth. This episode encourages listeners to consider how to strategically shift for continued success.
Connect with us today @
Websites: www.ihimtv.com , www.agapeacf.com, www.theleadersforge.com
Social media: linkedin: Matt Amy Carpenter - Executive Leadership Strategic Advisors - In His Image Ministries | LinkedIn
Facebook: www.facebook.com/IHIMTV/Internet TV: Faith United Network. FUN TV - HOME (watchfuntv.com)
Thanks for listening! Connect with us, for more products or our availability on Facebook, Linkedin and ihimtv.com
Thanks for listening! Connect with us, for more products or our availability on Facebook, Linkedin and ihimtv.com
Welcome to 5.0, 5 Foldin' Beyond with Matt and Amy. In the 5.0 podcast, we're going to peel back the layers of the Ephesians 4 model, revealing a thriving church, ministry or organization. This will help leaders to identify, work together and implement or raise up the believers who want to move in their calling.
Speaker 2:We also offer seminars, conferences and strategic advising to pastors and leaders. We'll sit down with you and help you to learn how to have a 5 Fold influenced church or organization. I'm also going to show you how to identify and integrate people with 5 Fold giftings into your teams and your organization. So connect with us at ihemtvcom.
Speaker 1:So get ready to engage, as these podcasts will open an understanding, remove confusion of the 5 Fold and open your eyes and heart to what you and those around you carry. Welcome to this podcast. I'm Matt, and I'm Amy.
Speaker 1:Glad to be here with you. If you're watching by video or if you're listening on podcasts on any platform that's for audio, obviously in your earbuds or whatever Love to hear some feedback from you guys how you're doing, what's going on. You can reach us at ihemtvcom there's a button there. You can write a note to us or whatever. Also on Facebook there as well. We're excited about this podcast because we're going to continue a little bit. From the last podcast that we had that we talked about. What were we talking about?
Speaker 2:how to create an environment of involvement.
Speaker 1:I think for 5 Fold leaders, 5 Fold people, that we need to understand how to handle success.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we always ask the question. As we're embarking on a new venture or in our business or ministry, we ask the question what if I fail? And we ask ourselves that question, probably, and make our decisions based on that what? We think the answer to that question might be, but we fail to ask the question. To kind of use that what if I succeed?
Speaker 1:So here we go, guys. We got the scenario. Whether you're apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, you might have great skill sets and powerful spiritual gifts, but we could be frustrating ourselves or sabotaging ourselves if, deep down, we're afraid of success. We don't know how to handle the success.
Speaker 2:And we don't prepare for success.
Speaker 1:Prepare for it, adapt to it. And success is different to everybody, but there's dreams and hopes and desires that you have within your life that you would like to attain and reach. When you reach that, whether it's the first step of many doesn't matter that is a success. It's better than going backwards. So how do you handle yourself when you deal with success, and not just personally, just for yourself only, but especially when you're working with others or you're responsible for others as a leader? You have a team, or you have a church or a kingdom business, whatever it is that you have that you are responsible over and everybody gets to share in that success. The dynamics have changed drastically.
Speaker 2:It has. Now let's not get all holier than now and say, oh brother, I don't look for success, I just obey God. Well, let's see what God says about success. In 1 Kings, chapter 2, verse 3, he says observe the requirements of the Lord, your God. So yeah, obey God, follow all his ways, keep the decrees, commandments, regulations and laws written in the law of Moses so that, with the end that you will be successful in all you do and wherever you go, obeying God should lead to success. God wants us to be successful, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's all kinds of verses on that and this isn't necessarily a teaching on success. No, this is a how to in an instruction. Ok, let's get started. Good, well, that's a good one. Is that weird, I don't know conversation that we're having about how to handle success and what we've seen, how we've handled success, what we've seen with dealing with other people as well. So the third letter of John, verse 2, says this as beloved I pray that in all respects you may prosper or succeed and be in good health, just as your soul prospers. So it comes down to you as a leader, apostle, prophet, pastor, evangelist or teacher, how you perceive success within your own life, because you cannot celebrate success in a peer's life or the people that you're involved in. You will not have success yourself. It will be very self-centered and it will be limited and it'll be sabotaged right.
Speaker 1:So success is coming. God desires for success. When you plan a seed, he wants it to be a good harvest a 3060 hundred folds even better. He wants that to take place. So when you obey God and you fulfill an assignment that he has in your life, you want that to be successful for the glory of the kingdom. Of course you want to work out, you want it to bear fruit. You there's all kinds of Christianese and lingual language that we use to explain the same picture, and so we wanted to be able to look at that, because we're gonna deal with some subconscious things and maybe not so subconscious.
Speaker 2:Right, because you've worked really hard for this. I mean, you have poured your blood, sweat and tears. You're, you've literally poured your life out to make this thing successful, this ministry, this business, this church, whatever it is. You know you have worked hard for this. But this is the thing. If there are things that we don't like, you say these subconscious things, almost some of them or the way we've been trying to realize there's gonna be a battle there.
Speaker 2:Okay, there are just as many battles with success, things that we're gonna battle that's try to derail us. Then there are battles for failure or during failure, so we need to understand them so they don't wail at us Along the way.
Speaker 1:So let's look at the first aspect then struggle, because that really Forms us, or who we are. Struggles, hardships, trials, tests, those things form us as well as our victories, our successes are, blessings are. There's a mixing of the bowfet form us, but in the struggle, end of the side, that's all of you, that's where we are, determination or are not giving up side of us is forged in those dark fires and out of that we emerge differently, hopefully to the image of Christ and not a deformed Individual. So struggle sometimes, because all you know is how to struggle. You fight for it, you are hard worker, you keep at it, you do it. You. You worked hard for this ministry, this business, whatever it may be. Struggle becomes your best friend and that is a cold bedmate right there, I'll tell you right now. It keeps you thinking small.
Speaker 1:And apostles and prophets, pastors, vansers, teachers, you guys, gals, cannot afford to Live out of a paradigm that's only struggle related. I worked so hard for this. And then, when you success comes, you're used to struggling and sometimes God brings blessings and things in our life. Oh, that's too easy, must not be God. You know, there's that subconscious thing that comes up and so we have to watch it. So, with struggling, sometimes we feel that, say, if we're building something, we get this entitlement that we own it all. As I struggled for it, I did remember this is not our baby.
Speaker 1:A podcast on pioneering We've talked about that before pioneers or that's a, that's a tendency that you can go to on the negative side, but we're just talking to 5.0 leaders. We're dealing with teams, dealing with people. You initiated it, maybe you did most of the work, modeling it, mentoring it, frustrated with all kinds of things. Maybe two or three people have filled the same position or the same place because they didn't work out and it's just like wow, struggle after struggle after struggle. Finally, whoa, everything seems to be coming. Your team hits its stride, its rhythm, the thing the fruit is coming in all of a sudden. This is like growing. This is succeeding. And so you find out that you know what your training actually worked.
Speaker 2:So what happens when it works? I'll tell you what every leader will need to go through this, this particular battle. Yes, sure and that's the battle with insecurity or ego. Let's put it on the other end too, because See what happens if you did your job so well that now the people that you trained are doing it better than you? Uh-oh, what if they're you know they're growing their team bigger than what you could grow it? What if they're presenting or preaching or more charismatic than you?
Speaker 1:People are going to them more.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, People are seeking out their counsel and advice instead of yours, because success attracts. Hmm, you're, you're, still successful, but it's like now, other people are getting the attention.
Speaker 1:If you know your lane that you drive in, you will never have that. You would have dealt with that. It helps deal with that insecurity. There's a whole bunch of things to help deal with that and hopefully we'll break up with some of that today.
Speaker 2:We do want to, but let's talk about a few examples. So, Because we've seen this a lot of years Sure.
Speaker 2:Just so you can understand. You know what we're talking about, because this, this particular battle within security, can sabotage the entire ministry, business, church, whatever it might be. We've seen scenarios like from a pastor who was was, you know, building their church and they wanted it to grow and so they started, you know, they had a leader under them who started a youth group and the youth group started to really succeed and thrive under that leader that they appointed.
Speaker 2:And now the youth group many numbers yes, out numbers, the rest of the congregation and so all of a sudden people are excited about this youth group and it seems to be the dynamic force of the church and you know, everything that's exciting happening is happening through that leader of the youth group, the youth pastor and then, of course, the pastor. We've seen this has has started becoming insecure because the youth leaders are tending to have more success and growth than they are because they don't see their second hand delegated success as success right. And so all of a sudden they, their insecurity, causes them maybe to shut down the youth group or to put boundaries or limitations on it. That just totally sabotages it because of their own insecurity. Not only did they sabotage that leader that they had delegated and appointed there, but now they've impacted and put a stumbling block in the lives of many of those young people.
Speaker 2:And we've seen situations like that in churches, where the youth even today, probably decades later, are not serving God because of that bad experience, nor their children.
Speaker 1:Hey, how about emerging apostles and prophets or people, or even maybe you are an apostle and prophets in a congregation and you've? You know you're not a rebel, you're not, you're not someone that's purporting to be something, you're not and push your anointings on that local house, but the leadership is threatened by by you there and won't allow you to have any input or in, even flow in the spirit, because you started to and then, but your gifts of healing seem to be way more powerful than mine, so you're going to stop ministering. You know they wouldn't say that, but you're not going to be in the altar times anymore and praying for people and whatever this. Those are insecurities that come up in those leaders and if and if that's you on the receiving end, I just pray, speak healing over your life right now. Not all leaders are like that. Maybe they were young in their leadership, didn't understand, Maybe they were heart hearted, maybe they were insecure. I don't know where they are at in your story, excuseing them, we're not, but you need to receive healing from that.
Speaker 1:That there, that is not. Make sure you don't reproduce that and not all. That's not the norm or should be the norm in the in the house of God.
Speaker 2:God deals with that Frequently.
Speaker 1:And that's because it's never talked about. You know how many pastors or leaders conferences have you gone to that at the conference that there was a time where they just dealt with insecurity?
Speaker 2:dealing with your insecurity.
Speaker 1:Talk about insecurity Very rare. It's all about this and that, and then there's wonderful things depends on the conference. So we just want to take a little bit of time just to open up the door to get us looking at that. That's one of the things as a leader 5.0. Hey guys, that we reevaluate who we are, make sure that no insecurities have crept in, and you'll know it when someone else is succeeding. That you have imparted into and you'll know you're mature enough when you are able to celebrate that and launch them forward.
Speaker 1:Further than you, so you can so keep doing what you're doing, which is recreate more of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know you're not a bad person because you deal with this. A lot of times we think all of a sudden, then, once it's it's brought to our attention that oh my land, I'm a horrible leader. No, everybody. Every one of us needs to deal with this and we may need to seek outside help to help us work through this. Usually so Don't feel alone in this. Nobody wants to admit it. But don't feel alone because there's a battle.
Speaker 2:There's always a battle with ego. It really insecurity comes down to ego and pride, because they're doing it better than you or they're succeeding where we feel like we didn't have that kind of success and so we have to deal with that. And we could, but it's good when it comes to our attention, because then we're like okay, now we need to take steps which we want to talk about. What can we do to?
Speaker 1:deal with that, sure, sure, an insecurity comes up when, when it becomes a comparing game oh, we're comparing our successes my way, because I succeeded is the only way. Your way is not a good way, you know and we elevate ourselves among each other because we feel insecure about it. So my success becomes this bragging rights in this shield of anything that's gonna threaten me. On that, and I'm lungs, I'm the big fish in the pond. We're gonna be good.
Speaker 2:So you put everybody else down or keep them, keep the lid on them, or whatever they can't yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I I think it's something needs to be talked about in five-fold, because governmental ministries require you're gonna be judged more by the Lord that the Bible says it read your word, you're gonna find out about that. So we don't want those inner things. With the soul, I'm gonna succeed or prosper as my soul prospers, and insecurity rests in the soul and is brought on by Hertz Experiences or bad teachings and I'm doctrine within my life that purports a pattern that is unhealthy in my leadership skills and my ability touch people. So we are get fooled by our powerful Anointing or gifts that we have developed over the years. Well, that that's working man. I can read their book, wow. I lay hands on the sick and they recover. We can do all those things.
Speaker 1:But our we're talking about leadership here. We're talking about success. We're talking about what if I do succeed? I've been working this individual in this team and look at them, go and wow, they do that better than me and that's what we got to keep coming back. So struggle is not your friend anymore. You don't need to show off your scars and say, but I paid for this, I own this. Let's move past that. That's elementary in the areas of success and you know what you paid the price does a reward in heaven for you. The Bible says that right yeah, and you know we got the heart of a father and mother.
Speaker 2:There it is in this because when you think about it, if you have children, think about the times that they succeeded, although I know there are dysfunctional parents who may not feel this way, but in general, that's right. We're talking about functional parents. Yeah you get excited about your child's success. You don't try to belittle their successes to make yourself look good and to keep yourself in that I'm better than you roll. No, we celebrate them, we brag about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah everybody who will listen. We show pictures of their success and we, you know, because that's the heart of a parent Wanting our children to succeed more than us. And if you are a 5.0 leader, you should have that same kind of heart where you want your spiritual children, your protege's, those that you have imparted into, to surpass you and everything that they've done. That's true success, see, to be a success. And I know you've heard this same you need to have a successor.
Speaker 2:And and when we raise up and impart in others and multiply Ourselves in others not that they have to be exactly like you, but that they take their individual flavor and it's propelled forward Through our love and our support and our teaching and instruction Then that's something to get excited about, not to get jealous of, and so it's. It's getting our heart shifted To the heart of a parent that that wants them to succeed. And and you know also, I think it's looking at the bigger picture, saying my insecurity is insignificant. I need to to buck up, I need to be confident in who God's called me to be and that I'm doing the job that I need to be doing in the kingdom?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I recognize that this is not my church, this is not my business, this is not my team, it's God's. I Am a laborer, a steward of that which is given with God in this ministry, in this kingdom work, and I want this kingdom work to succeed, and I know that for that to happen it takes more than just me, and Maybe I'm at the helm right now, but it doesn't matter you are, you're just running with this the more that.
Speaker 2:But, man, when everybody else is succeeding greatly in their piece and and doing it better than I could do it, then the kingdom work is being accomplished. We know that this is a kingdom thing and it's shifting our thinking.
Speaker 2:Succeed in the way that we think yes, and the way that we interact and the way that we change, and then we will see that success, when our soul succeeds. And it's a shifting of mind, it's a humility, a humbling of self. This is not about me, and that's a hard thing, because, especially when you've like we started out with you put your blood, sweat and tears in this. You've birthed it. It's about me. This is my kid, this is my baby. I've worked hard to see it grow. No, it's not. I'm sorry. It's not your baby, it's God's and we, we have to you midwife, you midwife, you act as a midwife and birth things into the kingdom that you've received in the spirit.
Speaker 1:And so success is knocking at your door now. Your teen dynamics are changing. Things are happening. Bye-bye struggle. I'm no longer familiar with you. You're not, ma. You're in my testimony now. You're in my story, behind me, but you are not in my future.
Speaker 1:I may experience struggles, oh yeah, I may have hardships but my reliance on you to keep me in a sense of ownership and entitlement and Maybe a false security, is behind me now and I went through it as part of my story. So that brings me to the second thing that we find as we're dealing with this. What, if I do succeed, is I have to recognize, possibly, what is happening with my group. Let's take, keep this as a team, keep it simple to understand there's a shift. Is this a team shift happening? Has it grown and succeeded? Or is this a mandate shift because of new people getting involved? New things are happening. So much elements are happening that we're getting away from the, not the methodology, but away from the center of the mandate or the mission of why maybe it just needs alignment, why we exist. Maybe it just needs some alignment. Or has it truly grown into something beyond where it started? Which, yes, it should, but along the way you can get drift. So let's talk about that for a few minutes.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about that because you know with anything gross. The more people you get involved. Their flavor is being added their ideas their thoughts, sometimes their opinions. You know, the more input you get from different people from different places, Within that team or that group.
Speaker 2:There has to be shift, but sometimes it's not a good drift, and so we have to discern that. Because it's like you know, even in business. You know you start out with that small family run business right, and everything is very, you're very clear with your mandate, you're very clear with the direction you're going, but all of a sudden this thing goes corporate, or you know it. Just it grows so huge, it franchises or it. You know these things happen.
Speaker 1:Or you're now planted five churches. There's one.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Whatever. Are we still, you know, operating under the same mission? Is that even possible? Or does it need to change? Or are we trying to constrict it into? You know like, instead of having a wide funnel, we're trying to narrow this in, I know.
Speaker 1:Let's use these words. So I said mandate shift, let's call it. It's either a mandate drift or a shift.
Speaker 2:So shifting. Shifting goes from oh that's good, drift or shift.
Speaker 1:Right, so a shift goes from gear one to gear two, to gear three. Okay, so we're shifting up and we're accelerating.
Speaker 2:That has to happen. We're reaching about that is success growing?
Speaker 1:now Success happens, but then success has growth levels of itself. So drifting, it's coming away. We're losing control. So a drift is like your paddles you're on a river, but your paddles fell overboard and now how are you going to move your canoe right? And you're drifting with whatever is around you influencing you Circumstances.
Speaker 1:Correct. So you have to recognize in your ministry your growth, your business, personal life. When things are being attracted to success all of a sudden, don't squash it, because the dynamics are changing. You have to understand in my in drift or shift.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Man, that should be a. That's a subtitle. So all you people out there you just saw it on YouTube and search it. There you go. I'm putting it as a subtitle.
Speaker 2:Drift or shift. What Shift or?
Speaker 1:drift, drift or shift.
Speaker 2:We need shift Drift. We gotta be careful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it happens right. That's right. But when you recognize it, you're able to to realign your course and step into it. So success always takes adjustment. So when we're not busy dealing with insecurities, we can focus on the elements of success, because it's a new dynamic from the struggle. So we have different dynamics that we operate when we're struggling, but now the team is cohesive. They're saying the same voice. We are speaking the same roar. We're protecting one of those. A unity was shifting and moving. Now success has entered, coming upon us. Different dynamics now operate. So you're not operating out of just trying to keep your head above water. You're not operating out of a unit under attack and you're always on the defensive. You now shifted into offensive. These require different principles to be applied. So the greater swallowed up that lesson.
Speaker 2:Let me talk about that principle. I want to change that word, I think, because see what we have to recognize, what are the core values or the principles with which our team, our ministry, our business is built on, because those core values should remain. There may be times that you want to shift to those, but primarily, whatever this thing is founded on the core values needs to stay the heart of it, right.
Speaker 2:But what we have to recognize is that the core values and principles need to remain the same. The same methods will have to change. It will have to readjust to make room for the growth right or to be more relevant as our society changes. You know, you can tell you go into churches or businesses that have not changed our methodology and even 10 years.
Speaker 2:like our society is changing at a very fast rate and it's very quickly, those methods can become not relevant any longer. I mean, you try to have the same you know, a flip phone from you know 20 years ago. It's mostly not relevant today. Okay, some of you out there may still have a flip phone, I don't know. But you know what I'm saying. There's a change of pace, so it's learning how to keep the core values, but constantly being reevaluating the methodology, the vehicle that those core values are being transported in, and saying do we need to change that out?
Speaker 1:Right. So that's why ministries go through phases of change and growth, sometimes through hardships and other times through upshifting. Either way, things never stay the same. So success isn't I've reached it, it's all over. I'm cruising, it's shifting into different things, right, and so one of the things that we talked about in this show is that instability that's created by insecurity within us will swallow that success up and spit it out.
Speaker 1:It's what we desire and want, but because it's not in the package that we want, it's threatening us because of something we have on the inside. We disrupt the process of success and we go into loops. So some people only reach a certain thing all the time because they're hitting loops, 5.0s. You guys cannot afford to shun people. We have to accept people, but not everybody's gonna be walking with you. There is a difference. So some are receiving the ministry portion of you and others are teaming with you. There's a difference and that's okay to recognize that. And when you recognize who's what and where, you're able to take success and move through and protect it from the enemy from coming in to try to destroy it. So insecurity has always been a door to hamper what you're working and doing.
Speaker 2:And that brings us to the last thing that we do wanna talk about, because we understand that, yes, we've gotta deal with the insecurity that's on us, but sometimes it's not an issue of insecurity. There may be others on your team, in your midst, that have underlying motives and they are really moving towards hostile takeover. They're staging a coup. They want to totally take this thing and shift it in a whole new direction, or take it from you, strip you of authority.
Speaker 1:I want it now. They're not waiting for succession, they're not waiting for impartation, they're not waiting moving in sonship. That's why sonship is so important. Other podcasts without the sonship there's no revealing of those agendas, because with sonship that'll be revealed quicker than slapping up the side of the head. So when success starts to happen and things are moving and shaking on your team.
Speaker 2:You might feel these feelings and you have to identify. Am I being insecure? True, true so is this you know this person succeeding and I'm having feelings of insecurity that I need to deal with. That's on me, or am I? Is this discernment that's kicking in? Because there's just something not right in that person, with their motives, with the spirit that's driving them. And so you have to do some soul searching, you have to do some seeking of the Lord too, To identify what's going on here Holy spirit, help me.
Speaker 2:If I'm insecure, I need to deal with that. But also Holy spirit, show me If there's something here, and that's what's creating this feeling that I'm feeling with. So what do we do with those people? What are our different responses? Like we kind of talked about how we respond if we're insecure, but how do we respond if there is a hostile takeover in the works.
Speaker 1:Right and you have to be a mature leader to do that. Tests. You do tests without them knowing it. That's more from an apostolic point of view, because apostles prove things.
Speaker 2:What are you testing, like their loyalty or you can test loyalty, you can test motives.
Speaker 1:You can test by putting them in a situation, letting them handle it instead, just seeing how that develops. See how they handle people. That there's like a personality conflict a little bit Like are they a little cruel, especially if outside, if it's a church thing. If they're outside church are they very carnal and they just turn on the glory button when they're around Christians Bang, there is your red light. Right there, that's it, right there. Carnality cannot walk where the spirit is meant to be, and so when you're crucified, those things that'll be revealed, right, those things will show up.
Speaker 2:What about, if you have them? Here's a good test. You partner them with another leader in the organization who is, and make them or team them up to work on initiative. That's not their idea. Does that make sense? Like oh?
Speaker 1:yeah, like you're not the originator.
Speaker 2:They're not the originator, they're not the lead, and see how well they support someone else in the lead or someone else's idea how do they get on? Board. Did they serve that thing or do they try to take the reins of it? Yeah, just kind of see how they respond in that type of situation and you'll see where they're hardest.
Speaker 1:We're not talking about witch hunts. We're not talking about going out and putting people to the stake. What we are talking about real issues that five point dollars deal with all the time, on daily basis, and especially dealing with people raising up leaders, raising up teams, working with people. In Today's episode is dealing with the success of that, but things still come up and crop up in success and you don't want it to be aborted or taken out from underneath you, and so these are things that are real, that have you know we'd be interested in some of your conversations. Don't write it down in the comments where the world can see you know private.
Speaker 2:Messages or something like that. That'd be awesome yeah cuz you know, and and just to kind of end this off, yeah way that you can prevent a lot of this as leaders and I know I'm kind of going back a little bit, but you want something to succeed. You want your team to succeed, your church, your ministry.
Speaker 2:I'm a business you want these things to succeed and but you need people. And If we're quick to put people in without having that test of faithfulness, what is that test to face most? If you're faithful in the little things, god rewards you with more, and Sometimes, as leaders, we're quick to throw people in. I need a worship leader desperately.
Speaker 2:There's the first person that can play an instrument and saying so we're gonna throw them in that position without testing them in the little things first, with looking for that servants heart looking for that. Are they with me, or are they just one of those that's, you know, taken from me but not? You got to do those, and that's why Paul says don't lay hands on anyone.
Speaker 1:Suddenly, so the local church is not an organization, it's an organism.
Speaker 1:Hmm so organizations who slot people in where the need is, just because they have the talent to do it. Boom, you read, you meet the requirements. That are shallow requirements, just whatever it is. But an organism is, it has to have roots. And when there's roots, you do not want, you don't want to leech on it or something on it, suck in the life out of it. It needs to contribute to the growth of that overall plant. So there it depends what you're trying to design, according to your success, and that will be that will help you align people, the right people, to connect within your purpose of what you're trying trying to do, what you're trying to bring about your goal or whatever.
Speaker 2:So, and you know, even in the business world though this is the same thing.
Speaker 2:But watch who you're putting in management positions, in leadership positions. I had a supervisor and she always used to used to tell me, you know, when I was doing the hiring process, cause you got desperate. You know, you're just looking for a warm body to someone who's willing to work. But this is the thing she used to always say you can always train skills, but you can't train attitude. And so that's, that's still a vetting process. You're looking for people with the right attitude, the right heart, the right spirit, and when you can find that person, you can train them. You can train people anything, anything who's willing to learn, but the ones with the wrong attitude aren't willing to learn and they're not willing to come in alongside and serve and do whatever needs to be done, and they're just going to be a thorn in your flesh, um, until they're gone.
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